Socioeconomic Divisions in Mormon Wards part 1, or, How do I Magnify My Calling?
(Note: This is the first of two posts on this topic. Both of them were featured in the Mormon Times section of the online version of the Deseret News. Click here for part 2)
I need your help. No, my ward needs your help.1 Please brace yourself, because I intend to ramble for a bit before explaining.
I live in a ridiculously huge LDS ward in Southern California–the actual numbers fluctuate a bit during different seasons, but we’re in the mid-600’s on a regular basis.2 To deal with the ridiculous hugeness of our ward, some individuals receive callings3 that are designed solely to help manage the inflow and outflow of members and make sure that everything is running smoothly. I am one of these people, and I think that my calling is somewhat unique, in the sense that I’ve never heard of anyone else in the Church having my specific set of responsibilities. The official title I have is “Ward Fellowshipping Chair” and could be generally described as a charge to make sure that new people and visitors feel welcome, veterans feel included, and that everyone is sociable and likes each other. Just kidding about the last part. Sort of.
Because I think our ward is (far) below average on the Friendly-and-Inviting meter (these come standard in any LDS meetinghouse), I am left to infer that I am not particularly good at my calling. For the moment, suffice it to say that my incompetence is partially a result of less-than-optimal effort (a New Year’s Resolution!), partially a result of my private nature–I don’t really like talking to people I don’t know–and partially a result of the interesting characteristics of my ward. It is, to be direct, just a very intimidating environment for someone trying to break down the walls of crusty relationships between strangers to find friends and fit in. This topic kind of came to a head for me yesterday during a discussion in Priesthood meeting that I’ll refer to later, but let me first explain two of the forces at work here.
First, Size: As I mentioned earlier, the ward is huge. This means that, on any given Sunday, you are likely to sit down in a pew next to someone you don’t know, despite the both of you having lived in the ward for over two years. Sure, you might have shaken their hand at a linger longer some time ago, but you can’t recall for sure, so you accept reality: After two years, it’s way too late to be asking their name now. That would just be awkward. So you pretend to not notice them. Repeat that exercise week after week, and eventually you’ve painted yourself into a corner where you’re afraid to ask anyone’s name. Now multiply that by a few hundred, and Voila!: You have my congregation.
Second, Socioeconomic Barriers: LDS congregations are created on a geographic basis. As such, I would argue that wards typically fall into one of two groups: those with socioeconomic homogeneity4, and those with where socioeconomic status is dispersed normally and (mostly) continuously about the mean for the region. I’ve lived in a number of different wards in multiple states and countries, and every one of them has fallen into one of these two groups–except the one I’m in now. My current ward is spread out across a tiny corner of four cities/towns in south Orange County. Despite the reasonably broad boundaries, the socioeconomic makeup of the ward is divided up into three very distinct groups–trimodal, if you will. I noticed these groups the first time I attended Sunday school after moving to Irvine as a student, but the rigidity of the divisions didn’t become clear until I stopped going to school and began working as a consultant in Irvine. Let me give you a rundown:
1. The Students. Our ward includes all of the housing at UC Irvine, which is home to a fairly large number of LDS students. When I first moved to Irvine, I was in this group, and also exhibited most of the characteristics below. Because they’re all graduate students, they share several key characteristics:
- They’re all married, since all the single students attend a singles ward. And since they’re Mormon and married, they all have at least 7 kids. Or 2.
- They’re all graduate students. There are only 4 married undergraduate students in the state of California, and none of them attend UCI. They all live in Bakersfield with their parents.
- They’re all smart.5
- They’re all poor.
- As recent BYU grads, they all think they should be EQ/RS Presidents and that being a Home Teaching supervisor is beneath them.6
2. The Older and/or Retired Couples (ORCs). Our ward includes a small chunk of several coastal towns, and consequently is home to many long-since established folks. Many of these people are retired and have gobs of money. And by “gobs of money” I mean great big sacks of it under the bed and inside throw pillows on the sofa. Like the students, the Orcs share some defining attributes:
- They all have gobs and gobs of money.
- They all have cat-like reflexes used solely for dodging my wife as she tries in vain to take their picture for a ward photo directory (You know who you are!)
- They all have a general disdain for the students.7
- They all love the taste of Shire-folk grilled over an open flame.
3. The Young Professionals. Here, we have the final group, spread out widely across Irvine, and made up of MBA-types, lawyers, doctors, professors, and the like. I belong to this group of people, now that I am not a student anymore, and am no longer welcome among my former friends (sob, sob). These are the only people in the ward who actually do anything productive on a day-to-day basis (Orcs? Students? Ha Ha.), but they too have their quirks:
- They all think they’re too old to “hang out” with the students, and aren’t quite ready to kick it country club style with the Orcs, but they don’t know each other since they’re the most geographically dispersed group. So they’re mostly just lonely.
- They all have a perplexed look on their face on Sundays while they sit in Nursery.8 By “perplexed look” I mean a look that says, “Wait a sec…I’m an attorney for BigLaw…Why do I have Pepperidge Farm Goldfish-colored vomit on my suit coat and a snotty Kleenex in my hand?”
- They all have too much money for subsidized housing, but too little for a real house, so they all cram 3 kids into a two-bedroom town home with 1 bathroom. They envy both the students and the Orcs in this regard.
- They all fervently believe that Elder Oaks’ recent commentary on the use of cell phones during Sacrament meetings does not apply to BlackBerries or iPhones.
UPDATE: It became clear that I needed to amend two of the groups. I unfairly called the students “smart” and thus unintentionally implied that members of the other two factions are somehow less intelligent. This is obviously illogical, given the other characteristics I mentioned: Orcs don’t acquire gobs and gobs of money by being unintelligent. The same goes for CEOs, doctors, and attorneys. Scruples, on the hand, well…
Now, I mentioned a discussion in my EQ meeting yesterday that really got me thinking about this. The lesson was more of an open forum for suggestions, comments, and complaints about what the EQ has done well and what could be improved upon in the year to come. Kind of an “EQ Lesson meets New Year’s Resolution” thang. I don’t really remember what got it started, but after about 2 minutes, all of the comments were variations of the same theme: “I don’t know anyone in the ward/EQ, and feel like no one knows me.” Several ideas were tossed around, and hopefully the cream of them will rise to the top and be implemented successfully, but none of the suggestions really got to what I believe is the heart of the issue: It’s really hard to cross socioeconomic barriers, even (especially?) in the LDS Church.
If you’re a poor student, how does it feel to invite the big shot CEO over for rock soup and Jell-O in student housing? How would you feel if some Orcs invited you over for a meal that costs more than your monthly grad student stipend? Or what about when the group of lawyers and doctors ask if you want to go out to eat with them, when you know you don’t have the budget for it? The answer to all of those questions is the same: Awkward. Because both parties in each scenario are keenly aware of the awkwardness, none of these invitations ever actually get sent. The easiest, but suboptimal-on-Sundays solution is simply to stay within your own socioeconomic strata.
We talk in meetings about greeting new members and being more friendly and introducing ourselves to each other, but I guess what I’m trying to get at is that the problem is much deeper and much more dangerous to the “unity” we so often talk about–socioeconomic awkwardness is not overcome through extra handshakes and hellos.
I’m going to leave it there, though I could say more. I doubt this will get wide enough distribution to generate much discussion, but if anyone reads this, I would LOVE your input here. Have you ever experienced anything like this in your own ward? What did/do you do about it? An obvious (and oft-discussed in my ward) solution is to split the ward–but splitting the ward creates problems of its own and, more importantly, such a decision is not in the purview of the Ward Fellowshipping Chair. Input, please?
UPDATE 2: There is a nice discussion of what makes a “Happy Ward” over at Mormon Mentality right now. Also, this post was noted in the Deseret News’ Mormon Times, so thanks for all the great comments and suggestions thus far.
1. I’ll just go ahead and say from the get-go that this going to be a seriously Mormony post. In fact, it’s likely to be so Mormony, that it certainly will violate my own stated goal of not writing posts that are difficult for NoMos to understand. If this post bores or annoys you, please skip it or indulge me and try to help me find a solution to the questions at the end of the post.
2. A typical Mormon ward will have 100-300 members. Anything above 400 is “big”, and 500 might be considered a common threshold for splitting the ward in two.
3. For you NoMos out there, “calling” is a Mormon term for “assignment” in the local congregation. Without paid clergy, everyone (who is willing) gets a calling. These change on a reasonably frequent basis–on average a year or two if you stay in the same ward. More here.
4. Student wards might be one example. “Neighborhood” wards are another example, where LDS populations are highly concentrated and all members come from a particular neighborhood–either very wealthy or very poor.
5. But not that smart. The fact that most of them hail from BYU demonstrates a serious flaw in their character, or at the very least, poor judgment on their part. And bad parenting.
6. Okay, that last bit isn’t fair. Except in one case. (You know who you are!)
7. Maybe “disdain” is the wrong word. Basically, when the subject of students comes up, Orcs will invariably say something like, “The turnover for students is so high, I just can’t keep up with it all.
8. For the NoMos, Nursery is the place where kids between 18 months and 3 years go for Sunday school. It mostly involves playing with toy cars and trains, screaming for Mommy, and hiding in the corner so as to conceal that you just pooped in your pants.
I have the perfect solution: Poker. Real poker. With real money on the line – the more the better. This will help in several ways.
First, it is a fairly neutral game in terms of requirements to play (orcs can’t play basketball with the students, students can’t tolerate the tedium of playing Rummy with the orcs). Also, poker naturally promotes socialness as there are plenty of opportunities to discuss life, get to know your fellow players, and such. Thus, everyone in the ward will get to know each other, names and all.
Second, the students (defined by you to be smart) will clearly be able to outplay the wealthier CEOs and such, who in turn will be able to outplay the even wealthier orcs. Thus you’ll have a slow but steady redistribution of wealth from the orcs to the CEOs to the students which eventually will eliminate the socioeconomic walls.
Finally, the up front costs for you to get started would be minimal. Suitable decks of cards can be obtained for roughly $3.00 each (avoid plastic cards, they don’t shuffle well), and a few sets of poker chips would only be an additional $25 – $50 dollars (again, avoid cheap plastic). If that’s a problem, just have the EQ/RS make some sets from scratch – mormon’s are experts at making due with what they got.
To best implement this, I suggest you setup a poker league within the ward, with regular games held multiple times a week in various members homes. Then, once a month, a tournament could be held – the cultural hall/gym should be a perfect location for this. Additionally, on Sundays you could just eliminate Sunday School since no one has ever learned anything new in Sunday School since November, 1935.
thornmaker
01/06/2009 at 6:23 am
I’ve always felt that wards tend to be on the too-large side of things in most places. I’m not sure how familiar you are with anthropology research, but this guy named Dunbar did some studies and determined that the number of people we can interact with (and remember their names) is limited by our brain size. For different primates, the size of the social group is different, but for humans it’s right around 150. This ’social’ group includes anyone you know and interact with, be it family, friends, old high school or mission buddies. As people reach their personal limit, when they meet someone new, they have to put forth some effort to remember that person. This invariably results in forgetting someone else, usually someone you haven’t seen or heard from in a while.
The bigger a ward gets, the more likely it is that people just won’t know everyone. The most close knit congregations I’ve ever been a part of have always been the smallest I’ve been a part of. Maybe in your ward instead of trying to push the socioeconomic groups together, you should be trying to split them apart. Encourage them to interact within their small groups. The smaller the group, the better and more fulfilling the interaction will be.
Jake
01/06/2009 at 6:54 am
@ Thornmaker–
Yours is almost the most brilliant comment I’ve ever seen in my whole existence, but for one problem–and it’s my fault.
The fly in the ointment here is that I failed to mention that students are not alone as “smart” folks. In particular, you don’t get to be a doctor, CEO, or lawyer without some measure of education and brains. I think it unlikely they’ll be outplayed by the students.
The same can be said for the Orcs–they are rich, and how did they get rich? By being smarter than the average wolf of isengard.
So, the otherwise phenomenal system for redistribution of wealth may need some tinkering. Suggestions?
@ Jake–
I agree with your general thoughts, but I think in the post I understated the severity of the issue and mischaracterized what I’m trying to do. For the latter, I’m not suggesting that everyone get to know everyone–I don’t have time for that, and neither does anyone else. What we want is a removal of the awkwardness–we need not all be best friends.
For the former, the size of the ward has not only decreased interaction between strata, but also within strata. Thus, encouraging inter- and intra-group mixing needs to be addressed. Some of the “ideas” I mentioned in the post, but didn’t give details on, are related to this–interest groups, etc…
Scott
01/06/2009 at 7:14 am
I wish I had something really clever to say. Alas, all I can do is answer your questions.
Yes, I have been in a ward like that. Not exactly like that, but similar enough. It was a regular ol’ family ward right by BYU, and Spouse and I decided to attend it because we had done the Married Student Ward thing and were ready to be in a ward that made some noise during sacrament meeting.
Like every other young couple in the ward, we were called to Primary. Frankly, I loved being in Primary, but I hated being a complete unknown in the ward. I wanted to rip my hair out when people would ask me if I was new after I’d been in the ward for more than a year. After a while our Primary teaching became an every-other-week gig, and I hated it because it meant I had to go to Relief Society, where I would sit alone and listen to women make remarks about young couples “these days” waiting to have kids and how that “wasn’t how the Lord intended it to be.”
One time I came home from church and burst into tears. That might not mean much for some women, but I only cry about twice a year. (Actually, for 2008, I only cried once- at the end of a book).
Sorry for the long comment. You just picked a very rant-worthy topic.
(I graduated from BYU, but I don’t want to be the Relief Society President. I’d like to be in nursery, please).
Sherry
01/06/2009 at 8:17 am
regarding canceling sunday school, i forgot to mention that you should play poker instead.
Anyhow… smart orcs… yes, that is a difficult problem. i suppose just ignoring them isn’t a viable solution… and it might be difficult to get all the students to cheat (being moral and all).
So why not play to the orcs weakness – their need to retell stories of their youth. If the students can keep the orcs going about days of yore, the orcs might not be able to concentrate as well on the poker games, and thus lose money to the students. The same strategy might work with the ceo’s and docs too, if the students can get them going on about their work (something they are naturally prone to talk on and on about). What more, this helps with the socialness by getting people talking about their very interesting lives and all (except for the students who should be focused on raking in their loot and keeping the others talking).
Anyhow, I’m sure if you just gave it a try, poker would solve all your problems.
thornmaker
01/06/2009 at 9:00 am
@ Sherry–
“…I had to go to Relief Society, where I would sit alone and listen to women make remarks about young couples ‘these days’ waiting to have kids and how that ‘wasn’t how the Lord intended it to be.’”
Stellar. Thanks for your input–though I don’t believe your claim to have attended BYU and not desire to be the RS President. This is, as we all know, a requirement for graduation from BYU.
Scott
01/06/2009 at 4:47 pm
Scott – Ben here – I read your post and thought of a plan. The only real way to break down socioeconomic barriers is by forcable entry. You every seen the show Wife Swap on ABC??? Dead seriously, talk to the activities committee and set it up. Two things may happen. When the Orcs step foot in student housing, they’ll may be more inclined to invite the students over. Or, like on the show, they’ll never want to see each other again, which is an inevitable solution for this awkwardness you speak of.
Ben
01/06/2009 at 5:50 pm
Hmmm, Scott.
I’m in group 3, but…
I often hang out with students.
I don’t serve in nursery but have told the bishop multiple times that he can put me there after I’m released.
I live in subsidized housing.
I don’t have a BlackBerry or iPhone.
So I’m even more perplexed because now I really don’t belong in this ward.
Avoiding work right now
01/06/2009 at 5:52 pm
I read your comment as glass is half-empty (or more like totally empty). But let me turn this on its head.
Who wants a ward in which everyone is the same? Not me. I like having a ward that bridges the gaps between normally disconnected social networks. I like knowing both orcs and students and young professionals. It gives me a better taste of what life is like for others. I like hearing talks from people at different stages of life. (That being said, I think RS would benefit from splitting it in half by age just because it is too big.)
Who cares about some social awkwardness? Not me. These things are funny to laugh at when you get home from church or from the activity. These things are no different from many of the awkward things that happen at my own family gatherings. And I think that comparison is perfect. If we all just thought of our ward as a big family, then we wouldn’t get so flustered when things don’t go the way we think they should or when crazy so-and-so said such-and-such without thinking.
But this problem with unity is so difficult? Yeah, but we all should accept the challenge. Our ward is not just a family (which can be difficult to keep together), but it is also a non-profit organization with all the same free-rider problems that other non-profits have. And we actually have fewer of them because we have a larger proportion of people who don’t want to free-ride. And the challenge of unity is the challenge of becoming a Zion people, right?
Our ward is never going to solve the “problem,” because it is not a problem that we fix so much as it is just the natural state of things that we’ll be continually working with. I agree that we can improve things, and that doing so is difficult–a point your post makes very clear. And I think a ward split is a good idea for many reasons. But, hey man, right now it’s an opportunity for people to go outside themselves to work towards something greater than themselves. Isn’t that part of the vision JS had almost two centuries ago?
So, sis-boom-baw and raw-raw-raw. Go team!
mm
01/06/2009 at 6:09 pm
@ Ben
Organizing a “Wife Swap” in a Mormon ward is a sure-fire way to land yourself on CNN answering questions about childhood in a polygamous compound.
@ Avoiding work right now
The exception proves the rule, right?
@MM
Certainly “sameness” is not the goal, but I have been told often by my superior officers that the chilly nature of the ward is a problem. Prior to Sunday’s discussion in EQ I didn’t really see it, because although I feel very much alone in our ward, this doesn’t really bother me because I sort of like being alone. Now I’m not so sure…it seemed like many other people were saying the same thing (without the “but I don’t care” part).
I agree that this is an opportunity for members to “go outside themselves” and that’s really what I was (probably not very clearly) asking for in the post–How do we encourage people to go take that step outside of their comfort zone? Not with the intent of becoming identical zombies, but with the goal of improving unity and closeness.
My point is that I believe the Groups are a barrier (above and beyond the normal barrier of meeting new people) to people taking that first step. I don’t want to destroy the groups–there are many strengths and efficiencies to be had by magnifying them to some degree–but I also don’t want them to be so pronounced that they hinder social mixing. Right now, I think they do.
Scott
01/06/2009 at 6:37 pm
You know, reading this actually made me sad. I’m going to get a little preachy here for a minute if you’ll indulge me. The Savior never paid one whit of attention to socioeconomic status. He loved people for people. And if you think about it for a moment, those rich folk with “gobs of money” didn’t always have gobs of money. Give them some credit for remembering what it’s like to live in student housing with two bedrooms and five kids. As for the students, they would do well to be humble and stop worrying about their income, housing, decorations, etc., and start inviting people to their home to get to know them, not their broken china collection. Honestly, this micro-inspection of people based on their income is disheartening. What you need to do in your capacity is get people to see past that, and the best way you can do that is to be the first to break the ice and show you’re interested in people for more than their fascinating socioeconomic status. People, any people, are really quite pleasant if you’re not approaching them with an oppressively dominant analytical mind. We all use the restroom, we all have gas on occasion, we all get popcorn stuck in our teeth, we all like to laugh, and, most importantly, we all want to be loved. So just love. Don’t think so much about status. That’s supercilious. Just love your church family members.
Okay, stepping off the soapbox now. Thanks for allowing the rant.
Liz
01/06/2009 at 6:57 pm
Nothing unites opposing factions as much as a common enemy. Mmmm… Mariner’s church up the road street is a good start.
Anonymous
01/06/2009 at 7:17 pm
@ Liz–
Zing Zing and ZING!
Very good comments. I think you hit one thing in particular on the head: Much of social awkwardness stems from bottom-up pride, not top-down pride. And certainly you’re right that, in the end, no effort will be successful without an increased effort at showing love for other folks.
However, I’m not entirely sure I agree that some serious, analytical inspection is not helpful. I have found, more often than not, that serious critical thinking informs decisions for the better just as well in the Church as in other walks of life–business, school. The problem arises if analysis becomes the ONLY tool (I assure you that this is not the case).
I don’t think there’s a Church leader in the world who wouldn’t prefer knowing what specific challenges a ward faces over knowing only that some unspecified issues are present.
In short–I agree–I don’t care about groupings (I didn’t say “income” in my post–because it’s not just income–it’s many combinations of factors), or at least I hope I don’t. However, I look around my ward, and it seems like the best explanation of the behavior I see, so it informs my approach–and my plea for ideas about knocking some barriers down.
Scott
01/06/2009 at 7:18 pm
Ha ha, yeah. I told you I got a little carried away.
Sorry about implying “income” where income was not the only factor. It was just easier (if less accurate) to say than socioeconomic status. Good luck with your dilemma! I’m sure with your brilliantly analytical mind, you’ll manage to scrutinize a solution out of your problem; just don’t forget to include your heart in the process your mind so clearly enjoys (I mean that in a good way, not a bad way).
Liz
01/06/2009 at 7:29 pm
spike the punch bowl at the linger longers?
thornmaker
01/06/2009 at 8:51 pm
@ Thornmaker…
Okay, I’m seeing it now: Gambling + Alcohol = lost inhibitions and more socializing.
Scott
01/06/2009 at 9:01 pm
well, I don’t consider poker gambling unless there is a House involved claiming a cut. Otherwise, it’s just a game of chance/skill (granted most would disagree with me).
WRT liquor, it has its downsides, but few will deny that it is a great social lubricant. just sayin’.
thornmaker
01/06/2009 at 10:12 pm
These problems do exist in other wards but certainly not to this degree. I’m not sure if I’m completely comfortable with the labels above but they seem useful for the discussion. Though I will say that any ward of this size is going to have problems socializing. I don’t think that there is any simple solution. Splitting the ward or liquoring it up doesn’t really address the problem as much as work around it. I think that being open to more activities with people of different groups is helpful. I have enjoyed the company of members from all of those groups at various church and non church activities. I think there is an element of this problem that is hard to address due to the structure of our meetings. While lasting three hours, there is very little time for social interaction. For good reasons (mostly unrelated to this) social interaction is actually discouraged during the times it’s most likely to happen (after sac. mtg., during Sunday school, etc.) I suppose that there isn’t much to be done about this. We can have “linger longer” activities but their effectiveness is limited. The other things we can do are simply to accept that the ward is large and that you might have to introduce yourself to someone several times, and they still might forget your name. We have to accept some awkwardness and get on with things. The most important thing is to do what we want everyone else to do and not be offended when they don’t. No getting angry or “holier than thou”, etc. I’m sorry that I don’t have any clever suggestions but I will note that these are pretty astute observations and that recognizing and characterizing the problem is very important first step.
Clark
01/07/2009 at 2:11 am
Michelle and I discussed this again tonight. I think we finally figured out our problem with the size of the ward. It’s not that we don’t know everyone (in every ward we’ve been in, there have always been people we have not known). It has more to do with a disconnect that we feel with the leadership of the ward.
I’ll use the Bishop as an example (although this could apply many of the other leaders of our ward). In every other ward we’ve been in we’ve felt some sort of connection with the bishop; or at least the bishop has been able to recognize us in the hallways. In this ward we don’t even feel like the Bishop knows our names. We actually feel like we have a better relationship with the stake president than with the bishop.
It’s not that he is not doing his best, all the leaders are just spread too thin because the ward is so huge. Now whether this has to do with the actual number of members in our ward, or because of the large number of visitors we get, or because of the large turnover, I don’t know.
Good luck! Thanks for fellowshipping us.
miles
01/07/2009 at 4:40 am
I loved the post for several reasons:
1. Like you said in a response above, “serious critical thinking” is helpful. Why gloss over things just because we have ideals doesn’t mean we shouldn’t tackle things head-on in the Church and come up with new / improved methods to follow the Savior and improve our Ward family interactions.
2. Orcs – that’s great, mainly because I love the Lord of the Rings but it was funny on other levels.
Ironically, your post hit home on a couple of other levels for me. Although we now feel like a “part” of our Ward, for a long time we felt like outsiders (several years) in fact. We’d fit into the third group and in some ways our ward hits along the same group lines as yours, 1. Young students 2. Young professionals with growing families who are likely not going to stay in the Ward long opting to buy larger houses elsewhere (not so much anymore), and 3. Well established families who are on the empty nest side and have lived in the Ward for 10-30 years.
What I found most ironic about your post though is that in our personal experience our most memorable and “favorite” Ward was near you, in Costa Mesa where the groups also fell similar, however, we were on the young married couple with no kids group. Some of the Orcs kind of brought us into the fold, they invited us to ride to the Temple excursions with them or ward parties on the beach (one thing I can’t get in Arizona). We felt very welcome in that Ward.
Here’s some ideas my wife and I came up with that we’ve seen work in the past:
1. You can always do the assignment deal, take an Orc couple aside and ask them to fellowship someone who needs it.
2. In one of our recent wards we had the activities committee form small groups for little parties of about 6 couples or less. Instead of propagating the alienation via a huge ward party where those on the “outside” just fly under the radar and avoid integration the smaller parties worked to get people together in an intimate and non intimidating atmosphere. We really enjoyed it since my wife and I aren’t very outgoing. We’re friendly enough but not that interested in jumping out of the comfort zone to shake a person’s hand we know we should remember.
Good luck!
Asquared
01/07/2009 at 6:13 am
I think when you have large wards like this or even just wards with different people in different “stages” of life you have this problem. I agree totally with your different groups. I have actually reduced it to just two and it holds up at least where I live here in Finland. Group 1 thinks they are better than everyone else, and Group 2 thinks they aren’t good enough. Unfortunately I don’t have the time right now to go into this but these are the reasons I see for people in the ward not getting to know each other. In the previous ward I was in for several years and there were tons of people who would not talk to me and to this day I still don’t know why. Heck even the bishop was this way. Because of this I was for a short while in the group that felt I wasn’t good enough but soon I also changed to the group thinking I was better than everyone else cause I knew I had to be better than all those that thought they were better than me
Anonymous
01/07/2009 at 7:12 am
I grew up in Southern California and have since lived in 4 other states. I have to admit that CA is my least favorite, and I don’t plan to return because I didn’t find the church members all that friendly. Sorry!
My husband and I lived in a similar ward (in Texas) when he was in graduate school. We had the apartment dwellers (either students or recently graduated young families saving up for a home) and the home dwellers (the wealthy). It was a great ward. We were grateful to have each other. I admit I was a little worried when I got called to be YW President. The YW Pres before me would take the girls shopping, and I was POOR. But, I figured that money wasn’t why I was being called. It was even more interesting to have young women who came from both groups: some who worked 30 hours a week in addition to going to school just to have a place to live, and others who spent hundreds a month just on their hair and got a brand new car when they turned 16. There was a definite disparity. However, we didn’t really have problems. We were very careful to do things so the differences were minimized at church.
I don’t really have any advice. Maybe the problem is that you are in Southern CA.
Stephanie
01/07/2009 at 1:42 pm
This sounds a lot my husband and I moved into this ward soon after we were married and at first it was very difficult to meet anyone other than couples who were exactly like us. One thing that really helped was that our ward started doing combined Family Home Evenings about once a month. For Christmas we got together with several other families/couples, put a basket of food together for an inactive family in our ward and then delivered it together while singing carols. One of the counselors in the Bishopric has been the driving force behind it and I think it has really worked. I have had the chance to make friends with ORCs (love the name), Widows, Young professional with insanely large and noise families, and medical students. I know that this probably wouldn’t work in every work, you would have to have a Bishopric that would be ok with it, but it’s worked for our ward.
Good Luck with your ward, I think this is a common problem in the church.
Kelli
01/07/2009 at 5:06 pm
Interestingly, there was a big push in this last conference on building Zion. In order to build Zion, we need to overcome the socioeconomic barriers.
Stephanie
01/07/2009 at 7:14 pm
I say you should offend someone who could be in a position to release you. Probably the RS president or someone in the bishopric would do. I know offending people will be a stretch for you, but just give it shot.
The Newton's
01/07/2009 at 7:59 pm
@ Clark
Thanks for the thoughts. Certainly the labels are a construct for discussion purposes, and do not actually capture/reflect every person in the ward. I want to think more about what you said regarding socializing during the 3 hour block…I agree that little can likely be done, but i’m curious how some of the 2-hour block experiments have gone in this respect–does everyone just go home early, or do people just stay longer to socialize? (Kind of an income/substitution effect for all you fans of the slutsky equation)
@ Miles
I think you nailed it–I actually am writing another post related to this, and don’t want to show my cards yet, but I will say that in our current setup, we can’t get more Bishoprics, but splitting the EQ and RS would be very beneficial. Again, though…not exactly in my purview.
@ Asquared
Hadn’t heard from your parts for a while…and you’re an old Costa Mesa lag, huh? We share a building with that ward.
Any chance that I’ve started a new Mormon slang term for the old people (Orcs)? I doubt it, but it made me laugh. Glad you liked it.
The “small group” activities is one of the ideas that I’m trying to implement right now–one of the ideas that was tossed around in the EQ meeting I mentioned.
Scott
01/07/2009 at 8:27 pm
One way is to deliberately create opportunities that reduce the awkwardness cost of introducing oneself to new people. How about…
1. Pitch to the bishop the idea of having a “fellowship moment” during sac mtg. I’ve been in other churches (not LDS) where they do this. At one point during the main service, the pastor/priest directs each member to introduce oneself and shake hands to the person in front, to the left, to the right, and behind them in the pews. Of course, new acquaintances are formed only if you are sitting next to someone different than where you normally sit, but it is a start.
2. Pitch the following idea to EQ Pres. End EQ mtg 5 min early so that each person can find and introduce himself to another EQ member with whom he has not talked before. A similar thing can be tried in RS.
3. Lobby the bishop to have some sac mtg talks specifically about how our ward can imporove on fellowshipping. As part of that, have it announced that sac mtg will end 10 min early so that people can introduce themselves to others at the mtg that they don’t know. Maybe make the end 10 min early thing a regular monthly or quarterly event. Or instead of sac mtg talks, have a 5th Sunday third hr combined mtg on the topic.
A less ambitious goal is to just help people get to know new ward members so that the ward members feel like they are not just spectators. How about…
4. In EQ a while back there was a “get to know you” moment where each Sunday or so a different EQ member would answer a series of questions about himself. I’m not in EQ often, so I don’t know if it is still happening. It was often very funny, but it was always very interesting. A similar thing can be attempted in RS.
5. Suggest to the bishop that in weeks without a youth speaker in sac mtg, let a new family introduce themselves and/or bear testimony. Or instead of having them come to the podium, just call it the “new ward member moment” where the bpric member has the family stand up while he says a little about them.
6. Try a ward newsletter run by the fellowship committee. Nothing big. Just give major announcements, a short spiritual thought from the bishop, and, most importantly, spotlight new members.
7. Stop asking the quorums/auxiliaries to get greeters. I know it *should* be done that way, but it’s not working. Have people specifically called to be greeters. Put them on the fellowship committee. Train them yourself. Get people that you know care about improving the friendliness of the ward. Have them function at all ward events and not just the start/end of sac mtg.
None of the above fix the root of the difficulty, but doing so might be too ambitious. Socioeconomic barriers are, in a sense, an equilibrium phenomena, and for obvious reasons. Creating a friendlier environment at church might be a more realistic goal.
mm
01/07/2009 at 8:35 pm
@ Anonymous–
A Finlander in the mix? Do we know each other?!? I could write for hours on end about the quirky workings of the wards in Finland. I loved them, but kind of dysfunctional…
@ Stephanie
On that topic, I was talking with some folks on the East Coast a few weeks back, and they all said that there is nothing more obnoxious than visitors/new members from California–they constantly claim that everything in the ward is inferior to their old Cali ward. Is this true? Are we that awful?
I am getting the feeling you didn’t like California.
@Kelli
I think the FHE thing is a good idea–it was also one of those that were floated in the meeting I mentioned above. Obviously, YMMV with things like that, but I’m certainly willing to give a shot.
@Newton
Just because you know I lack tact doesn’t mean you have to tell everyone else that! In any case, I do not want a release–I like the challenge.
Scott
01/07/2009 at 8:39 pm
@MM
I think you make some really good suggestions (also, excellent use of “equilibrium phenomena”…it’s important to keep things in terms that economists understand).
The first couple of ideas may fail because of my own weaknesses–every time I try to explain my grand schemes to Bishops, Stake Presidents, etc…I end up fumbling over my words so badly that the whole thing ends up being stricken from the record. Do I need a spokesman? Moses had Aaron…
I am all about incorporating more “get-to-know-you” stuff into meetings, but this obviously needs to be carried out efficiently so that it doesn’t run so long that no time is left for a lesson. Of course, if it did, that wouldn’t always be a bad thing…
Scott
01/07/2009 at 9:00 pm
OK – at the risk of offending most everyone, tell me why is it important that you bridge these gaps anyway? There is a huge difference between LDS doctrine and LDS culture. Truth is universal – culture is not. I have been a member of the Church for more than 15 years. I have a strong testimony of the truth that I have found in the Church, but I have never fit in socially. I have, at this point, given up trying to fit in.
Politically, philosophically, and socially I have very little in common with my fellow ward members. I have very little desire to interact with them on a social basis. That’s OK – none of those things are important when compared to our life’s search for meaning and truth.
I don’t want to change anyone, and I am only willing to change for the Lord – certainly not for my neighbhors and ward members, so why should these gaps be bridged? Can we not be content with our common faith and leave the rest to God?
In the past, being LDS was just as much a social/cultural identity as a pronouncement of faith and belief in a set of religous/spritual principles. Can that really be sustained as the Church grows globally? Should we even try?
Anonymous
01/07/2009 at 9:03 pm
Along the lines of the Poker option, you could:
1. Select various new and unintegrated folks and assign them to be less active
2. Select others who need to learn how to fellowship and assign them to be the less active members’ friends
I’m convinced that in some wards members are far more tolerant and accepting of people’s behavior if they believe they’re less active than if they perceive the member as active but uninvolved(major judgement calls on all parts of course).
One time at band camp..(never seen it) No, just kidding but one time I was in a ward for about two months (in-laws) while we looked for an apartment and 6 months after moving the EQP asked me to go to a baseball game because he thought I’d gone inactive. I had to decline because of my “active” state.
Asquared
01/07/2009 at 9:29 pm
@Anonymous
I hope your comment isn’t offensive to anyone, b/c I think you ask some brilliant questions–ones that I ask myself all the time. I–perhaps like you–do not care *much* for the social interaction so many others seem to enjoy in the Church. So, you may be asking why I would post something like this. The answer is to be found in one of my earlier comments:
“…I have been told often by my superior officers that the chilly nature of the ward is a problem. Prior to Sunday’s discussion in EQ I didn’t really see it, because [...] I sort of like being alone. Now I’m not so sure…it seemed like many other people were saying the same thing (without the ‘but I don’t care’ part).”
To clarify, reason 1 is that the Bishop, my Ward’s keyholder, asked me to work on this (but boy, he sure didn’t ask me to blog about it), so I will. Reason 2 is that, while I don’t care all that much about whether or not people talk to me at Church(they don’t), it’s become clear of late that many people do care, and each of us in the Church made a covenant to “comfort those in need of comfort” as best we can.
Lastly, I think that one thing is being *possibly* misunderstood–I’m not asking for everyone to have milk and cookies with everyone else on a constant basis. What I am suggesting is that the “universal truth” you mentioned might be more effectively learned, understood, and applied if the group discussing it knew each others’ hearts a little bit more.
Scott
01/07/2009 at 9:40 pm
Scott, well, the snob factor is why I wasn’t too keen on Southern Ca. It could also explain the “everything in the ward is inferior to their old Cali ward” syndrome. Just sayin’.
Stephanie
01/08/2009 at 12:47 am
Stephanie,
Snobbery only bothers people that aren’t cool.
(Or is that kind of comment what you are referring to?)
Scott
01/08/2009 at 1:11 am
I skimmed over some of the comments (and skipped a lot of the others, sorry! I’ll get to them!)
but I had this idea…you know how LDS functions can be…bad? Well, not bad…but home-styley…and kitschy…and weird?
Well, what if you could engineer something so homey, so “bad” that it turned out to be hilarious fun? I mean, if people feel intimidated being asked to eat at fancy restaurants, then reduce the activity to the lowest common denominator.
the problem is that this is utterly tricky…because you don’t want a function that actually turns out to be a disaster. You don’t want one that people look on for years and years and say, “Wow, that was terrible.” So you have to find a way, throughout the simplicity of the concepts, to make something that genuinely breaks the boundaries while still maintaining some kind of interest in some way.
Of course, beyond that kind of idea, I have nothing to offer as for specifics.
Andrew S
01/08/2009 at 1:32 am
Scott-
I know it’s been years, but it’s cracking me up that you are the ward fellowship chair… hmmm. I really don’t have any advice for you… that’s tough. You don’t happen to have a Steve and Lisa Nicholes in your ward do you? old friends from high school.
Haleigh
HaleighLynn
01/08/2009 at 4:45 am
Scott — I am in your ward and have never bothered to say hello, so count me as part of the problem. I am one of the so-called "Young Professionals," even though I'm not young, but I'm certainly not rich enough to be an Orc. But I do have a house, thanks to UCI's faculty welfare program.
Anyway, I lived in another ward that was actually four-modal (quadrimodal?), while I was a student at Stanford. We had the same three groups that you mention, but in addition our ward included the ghettos of East Palo Alto, at one time the murder capital (per capita) of the US. The fourth mode was thus poor, like the students, but likely destined to remain poor for the rest of their lives. In addition, unlike the other three groups which were essentially 100% caucasian, the fourth group was an amalgam of several minority racial groups (Hispanic, Pacific Islander, Black, etc). These were great people, but definitely on the lowest rung of the socio-economic ladder. Home teaching in East PA was always an adventure, and I remember several stories about not-so-pleasant interactions with well meaning church members and the East PA homies. I was able to more or less move undetected in and out of town, since as a student I drove a 1972 fake-wood-panel Ford station wagon (that, incidentially, I sold to someone in East PA for $100 when I graduated). BMWs and Mercedes didn't go over so well.
As I recall, my Palo Alto ward was somewhat better integrated than our ward here, mainly because there were a couple of Orc & Young Professional families that went out of their way to fellowship the students and ghetto-dwellers. I don't see a corresponding core of such families here, and must at least partly place the blame at my feet since, as a YP, I could certainly do so, but I haven't (yet?).
One funny (and sad, at the time) story from my Palo Alto ward: One of the Orcs in the ward (and by Orc, I mean ORC — on the Forbes 400 list) had a tradition of giving a little sum of money to all of the married student families in the ward. As I recall, the amount was something around $1000, which to us as starving students was a windfall of amazingly blessed proportions. I don't know if he gave a corresponding donation to the fourth group in East PA, but he was a wonderful and generous man, and I suspect he did many nice things for them that were not general knowledge. Anyway, one of the students, a quirky guy who had 7 kids and had been a Stanford Ph.D. student for almost a decade, got up in testimony meeting one Sunday and complained that the Orcs in the ward didn't really care about the students, they just threw money at them and hoped they would stay out of the way. Well, the free handouts stopped the next year, which led to some not-so-Christian thoughts on my part directed towards the quirky student (who could still be working on his degree for all I know).
Lee S.
Anonymous
01/08/2009 at 5:26 am
No, really. I don’t want to be the RS President. I want to be her second counselor, so I can be in charge of Enrichment! We’d make so many WAY CUTE CRAFTS!
And I don’t want my husband to be the EQP! I want him to be the Bishop!
Sherry
01/08/2009 at 6:53 am
Yeah you got someone from Finland reading this. I just recently stumbled upon your page and I guess you could say you might know me, I am not sure. But I prefer to remain “unknown” for now and with my public posts. Anyway, I also agree with the other person who posted anonymously about why make the people interact. When it comes down to it, the ward is like that because the people want it like that. The bishop might see it as a problem and I can understand his point of view because its his job but with a ward that big there isn’t going to be any quick fixes.
I also feel that I don’t see the need to have to force everyone to get to know everyone else. I am perfectly fine on my own doing my own thing and actually hate everyone that tries to get involved with my life and my business.
I also could go on for days about the dysfunctional of the wards in Finland. They try to run things they way they think they are run in the US and it doesn’t work for them. First they have the wrong perception on how its done in the US and second they fail in doing in the way they are aiming for anyway. I hope that made sense. The more successful wards are those which embrace the Finnish ways of doing things and just remain Finnish.
Anonymous-Finlander
01/08/2009 at 10:01 am
I just skipped over from Mormon Mentality but I thought I’d give you my two cents…
My current ward has a bit of these same problems and one solution I would love to see in my ward is a break up of the Visiting Teaching. We have many young wives of graduate students in our ward and they all VT one another. I’m not a student and neither is my husband so I have a semi-active partner and a mostly inactive woman to VT (I used to have more but this is my current responsibility). I have only one young child, though, so I end up socializing some with the girls 10 years my junior. I don’t really “fit in” many places but don’t really care, either. However, if the VTing list was a little more diverse- partnering some of the ORCs and Professionals with some of the students- I think we could break down some of our own barriers. Perhaps this would be effective in your ward as well… I have friends of all sorts in my current ward and work hard to maintain friendships with the Students (don’t ask “why?” – I have my reasons) but without some personal effort in the friendship-making area, I probably would feel very alone at church.
I can’t speak much about the EQ since my husband is a member but is completely inactive with no interest in attending (kind of the opposite of a “dry Mormon”) so I don’t hear much from the men’s perspective but I would assume my plan could work with home teaching as well.
The only downside to my plan in my own ward is geography. We span several towns across about 20 miles and most of the ORCs and Professionals live in distinctly different areas than the Students. However, as RS President in another ward, we made this plan work. We had VTers who had been companioned with the same person for 20 years and had been visiting their list of people for the same amount of time. We broke up these happy couples and started getting some of the new blood and old blood talking. It wasn’t perfect and some certainly balked but it was a start!
Regarding greeters: I might recommend rotating auxiliaries to act as greeters on a given Sunday. Being the “official” welcomer of newcomers can burn you out quickly. Those who don’t do it every single week may be more effective. At the very least you’ll start spreading the word to the ward that the friendliness level needs a boost.
Good luck!
Paroled from the Primary Presidency
01/08/2009 at 8:43 pm
@ Paroled–
Thanks for your comment. I think you bring up some good ideas for the VT side of things–but you also made me more aware of why such a plan might not be effective with the men in the ward: Because of the EQ/HP distinction, the students and young pros are automatically cut off from any possibility of either home teaching or being companions with the Orcs. Such need not be the case with the sisters
This raises the (unaddressed) question of whether the social awkwardness I am observing is equally distributed across gender boundaries. I have a gut feeling that it’s not–although the same boundaries may exist to some extent, “play groups” for the SAHM’s, and enrichment night, etc…should cause women with student husbands and young professional husbands to mix equally well. The men who are at work and don’t attend these activities (look at me gender stereotyping…as if I haven’t stereotyped enough in my original post!) may be getting the shorter end.
I’m embarrassed that I didn’t consider the possibility that this issue affects one gender more than the other.
Scott
01/08/2009 at 8:59 pm
@ Andrew S
Yeah, but that means I would actually have to be creative…and I’m, well, not. However, I don’t know that the “disaster” you speak of would actually be a disaster–nothing unites like a common enemy or bad experience, right?
@Haleigh–
I don’t know anyone of that name. However, given my post above, I’d say it’s very possible that there is such a family in my ward, and I just don’t know them.
@Lee–
Don’t feel bad for not knowing me. When I read your comment, I called my wife in so I could ask her if she knew anyone named “Lee S.” in the ward, b/c I sure didn’t. She didn’t either. As such, I’m pleased to make your acquaintance now.
That story about the Orc and the ingrate in Palo Alto is painful. I can imagine everyone in the room just cringing. Maybe I should adjust my description above; even though I meant it all in good humor, you never know when someone will take it personally.
Scott
01/08/2009 at 9:11 pm
When I was in a rapidly growing HUGE ward (which later got split), the RS provided those little HELLO MY NAME IS stickers for all the sisters to wear. Every week. Even if you couldn’t remember someone’s name, you just looked at their name tag and said hello.
We also had dinner groups. Families who were interested signed up (we signed up at a ward activity and could pick who we had a dinner group with, which might not help people get to know each other better, but it was fun) and once a month we met at one family in the group’s home for dinner (where everyone brought some part of the meal.
Allie
01/08/2009 at 10:18 pm
I linked from Mormon Times and wanted to say thanks for a great post that made me think.
I, too, have been in big, diverse wards where I felt a lack of unity; but I have also been in wards where love practically overflowed. One such ward ended up being split three ways when it got too big, and the Sunday it was announced there was a river of tears in the hallway. People cried for weeks over this split. I asked myself, “Why? Why are the members of this ward so sad to leave each other?” After some contemplation, I realized that it was because they had served each other. My husband was the Elder’s Quorum President, and I knew that so much service had gone on between members. And, as you know, when you serve people you come to love them, much the way missionaries do. As a missionary I never saw people through a socioeconomic lens; I only saw them as a child of God who needed to hear the gospel.
Anyway, maybe it’s beyond your calling to find ways for the members of your ward to serve each other, but that’s just some food for thought.
Emily
01/09/2009 at 8:58 pm
I lived in Harbor Hills ward long before it became so monstrously huge (in the 90s). When it was smaller the socioeconomic divides were far more bridgeable. So I’d say that it’s not so much the class differences that are the problem, but those combined with the anonymity, which ends up fostering clique-ishness.
And as a young married wife I was always rather overwhelmed by the ’splendor’ of the parties hosted by the ORC-type women, realizing that they were totally out of my league. As I got older, I realized that I would never want such a lifestyle (it was at odds with my core values and seemed ridiculously extravagant) and continued feeling alienation.
There are many good people in HHW, but it doesn’t strike me as a place where everyone feels needed and wanted. Smaller wards, IMO, work far better on that level.
Anonymous
01/09/2009 at 9:38 pm
I linked here from Mormon Mentality. Very funny post.
I think the only solution for a ward like that is to split it…and then split each new ward again. 600 people? My favorite wards have had 100 – 200 active members. More than that and too many people get lost and fall through the cracks.
I lived in Palo Alto for about a year and, even though I was in the singles ward, I saw how the regular ward functioned a little bit. Some really amazing members live there. Spiritual giants. It was quite interesting to see the lower class mingle with the multi-millionaires/billionaires…
I remember attending an open house of some sort. They held these open houses on a regular basis on Sunday at a wealthy member’s home, and invited various people (largely less actives, investigators, new members, etc.) for socializing. (I was neither less active, nor an investigator, but I was somehow also invited). A great example of reaching out to those who may not feel like they belong.
Tim
01/10/2009 at 3:12 pm
@ Allie–
Several people have mentioned dinner groups as a possibility as well, and I think this is probably one of the better ideas. Hopefully it takes.
@ Emily–
Thanks for the kudos. Without question, service is a key ingredient to any improvement here, and finding creative ways for members to serve one another is exactly what I’m hoping to get out of this whole discussion.
As a challenge to your own comment–did you really never look at people through any kind of a socioeconomic lens when you were a missionary? I sure did, and I think it was vital to do so. Consider Alma 32–his great speech on faith was couched entirely in the context of socioeconomic differences–the poor and downtrodden vs. those who booted them from the synagogue. I ALWAYS tried to adjust my discussions as a missionary to fit the individual circumstances of those I was teaching–and socioeconomic factors were certainly one of those.
@ Anonymous–
How do you know I’m talking about the HH ward? I never said that…
But you hit the nail on the head–it’s not just the size that is causing the awkwardness; size simply exacerbates the SE divisions.
@Tim–
“When is this ward going to get split?” has recently passed “I can’t remember what General Authority said this, but…” as the 4th most commonly heard sentence on Sundays.
Scott
01/10/2009 at 11:05 pm
I really liked this blog posting. This is definitely an extremely difficult subject. I am a married student, without any children. I am often overlooked because my husband and I have been in four different wards and we’ve been married for 3 years. We were even in a ward once for nine months and when we were leaving the bishop didn’t know who we were. We are often randomly placed into callings because we are not “permanent – forever” members of the ward. My most recent ward is quite abnormally small and it is where we’ve had the most luck in feeling noticed.
I don’t think that there’s one answer to the problem. Sinse I am aware of the fact that my husband and I are childless, non-permanent, young members I know that I have to be the one who has to make ALL of the effort. I’m OK with that. It really helps when wards are smaller.
I would think if you could ask to teach a couple combined lessons (i.e. 5th sunday of the month) and maybe use activities that use groups (that you pre-make)and kind of force everyone to get to know eachother better. Use humor and fun, that is what breaks the ice when it comes to socioeconomic barriers.
I once asked a couple over for dinner that I did not see myself normally asking over. So I got a “fun” game and once we started playing and laughing all the “differences” were forgotten. You have to use humor, laughter and fun to break those first rigid walls. all of of relate to laughter, old, young, married, not-married, student, retired….
You got the drift.
I know this might not be an ideal use of a lesson time. But, you must encourage unity and friendship amongst the members, and really you could talk about it all day long and nothing would work. If you put them in an activity they will learn how great their “neighbor” is from experience!
Kim
Kimberly
01/12/2009 at 4:18 pm
Scott–
Wow. Popular post. I agree with you that our ward does seem to be divided. However, I think it has to do more with age/time of life that with socio-economic status. Of course, those of us students find it very easy to be cliquey because we live so close to each other. We’re also all financially challenged to one degree or another and we all have little kids. So we tend to meet and chat in play group, Music Makers, and just around student housing.
I do, however, feel just as comfortable around those young professionals with young kids, even if their apartments include dishwashers and laundry hook-ups. I have a tougher time getting to know those without children or those whose children are teenagers. Our paths simply don’t cross, unless they serve in junior primary with me.
I have found that going to the RS interest groups has made a difference. I go to the book group and have gotten to know several ORCS fairly well and really enjoy chatting with them. I even feel comfortable addressing them by their first names!
I agree with Miles about not knowing our bishop at all, though. The only time we have a conversation with him is during tithing settlement, and the week we signed up for it he was out of town so we met with Bro. Bramwell.
If you’ve stopped reading comments and moved on with your life, I understand. I do have to say that the women who avoid getting their picture taken by B are crazy! She makes all of us glow.
Rena
01/13/2009 at 7:00 pm
@ Rena,
Thanks for your comment. I NEVER stop reading the comments!
Age, life stage, and relative location are socioeconomic factors–in fact, these are the very factors I was referring to. I think that a lot of people interpreted that term in the post as being “wealth”, but that is only one of many factors.
As for the other stuff, see part 2. I discussed most of the other things you mention there.
You are correct: My wife is awesome.
Scott
01/13/2009 at 7:13 pm
“It mostly involves playing with toy cars and trains, screaming for Mommy, and hiding in the corner so as to conceal that you just pooped in your pants.”
And that’s just the *leaders*!
Bah-dum-bump!
Thanks, I’ll be here all week…
On topic, our ward was regularly around 600, but it was long known that it would split on a very clear geographical boundary (one half was the growing half), and I think people went out of their way to not get too involved with the ‘other half’, just to not get too attached.
I miss the big ward, so many good people are not in the ward anymore.
Ryan
Ryan
01/24/2009 at 8:25 am
I thoroughly enjoyed your “breakdown” of ward demo’s.
As a Journalist/Newscaster, I think you have excellent writing skills. It was a delight to read something that rings true without the bitterness, but find instead.. actual humor! On a serious note, I do wish wards would be less cliquey and more inviting to strangers and ward members alike. My husband (a Physician, therefore we fit in the “young professional” category). and I find it difficult to find friendships, because our kids are out of the house, we travel/have money but don’t flaunt it (at least I don’t THINK we flaunt itLOL) Being from NY, I miss the NY wards (live in UT) down to earth, the Bp’s wife smoking in the girls bathroom (true story) you know, real people being REAL.. OK I’m highly against smoking, but I just love down to earth people, ya know? Thank you. Love, Kittywaymo:)
PS I would love the BIG LOVE characters to move into my ward, I’d be good friends with all of them, especially, Lois and Marlene!
Anonymous
02/25/2009 at 3:47 am
Kittywaymo–
Thank you for your high praise! Do you mean that you are/were a journalist/newscaster? If so, then my blushing just went from pink to red!
I agree with basically everything you said about cliques in wards–they can be so destructive to the spirituality and, ironically, the cohesiveness of the ward.
And I need to hear the story on that Bishop’s wife sometime!
Scott
02/25/2009 at 8:19 am
My husband is a student, and I’m a YP, and we’ve sort of assigned ourselves to be the Ward Welcoming Committee. Nearly every week we invite a family over for Sunday dinner. Generally we pick people that are a lot like us (although we tend to prefer befriending childless couples – they can stay out later), but we’ve started to stretch ourselves into the mature crowd. And we have a very small house that smells faintly of diapers.
That said, I have no idea how to encourage/enforce friendliness in others. If only everyone were a little more like me. (sigh!)
[5'6", 155 lbs.]
Emily R
04/01/2009 at 8:10 pm
Your Stake President (who I know personally) should take the lead and split the ward. I'm looking forward to a new Quail Hill (or Turtle Rock) Ward.
Matt
06/15/2009 at 9:36 am